[Report This]Date: March 30 2014 7:45 AM Title: Jenna - Part 2
Loved this chapter.
However you said:
[Jenna] also made it clear that they're putting every effort they can into not even harming her.
I don’t believe that is true. Jenna said these words:
'Our lesson is one in hurt, and not the emotional kind. Not the mental kind. The physical kind.'
So yes, Jenna mentioned they carefully avoided harming her thus far. But those words that I quoted were psychologically comparable to holding a partially loaded revolver to someone’s head or seating someone in an electric chair with hand on dial.
Jenna foreshadowed pain. Ashley anticipated pain — anticipation is often worse than the pain itself.
Now, that being said, this chapter was brilliant in its execution. You had the reader believing what Ashley anticipated. Gentle giantess lovers like myself rejoiced when no true physical pain actually occurred. Plus we got insight into Jenna’s mind -- she clearly isn’t as sadistic as she COULD be (thankfully).
As for the topic of equality, Ashley already mentioned Melody was 10 and she was a 9, so she’s not completely 'deluded'.
Furthermore, what happens when a pop star becomes famous, do her friends feel less equal? Or a man becomes Mr. Olympia, do his friends feel less equal because he can snap them in half? No relationship is truly equal. Sure the disparity in ‘power’ here is far greater than my examples, but still.
Dunno, I’m just spewing thoughts for the heck of it. Your chapters are inspiring, that’s for sure. Ultimately I’m proud of Jenna — way to go girl! She’s not out of the doghouse yet (from a gentle giantess reader perspective), but she’s definitely not Trell. Woot!
Author's Response:
That's true enough, I suppose, but I feel that at the point where Jenna starts talking about death Ashley has realized that she's talking about what she could have done to that Beta instead of what was going to be done to her.
I'm glad Ashley's anticipation had that effect. That was something I was worried about coming through, but it seems to have done so.
You've a point on equality, but as stated, the power disparity here is on a whole other scale. What it ultimately comes down to, I think, is how much you believe that the person with the power cares about you.
Thanks for the read and review though, I do enjoy the comments and thoughts.
Date: March 30 2014 1:28 AM Title: Jenna - Part 2
I find it amusing Jenna gets such a negative reaction. Actually how Ashely feels about Jenna in this chapter mirrors how a lot of the reader base feels. They assume what she could do instead of waiting to see what she will do. So far the only thing Jenna has done is squeeze Naomi a few times and by that point Claire had already done worse to Stephanie. If Jenna had talked with Marion instead I wonder if the reaction would be the same.
Author's Response:
I think there's a lot of assumption that Jenna was building to something greater with those squeezes, despite the fact that Jenna had already told Naomi that she wanted something from her in the future which kinda neccessitates Naomi being, you know, alive and able. I think it really does come down to, as I said before, Jenna's interactions being with the more sympathetic girls as opposed to the likes of Marion. She essentially becomes an antagonist to their progress, because she's far more demanding than Claire and isn't particularly interested in their baggage (at least with Naomi, a girl who very nearly did kill someone she is expressly close to through actual malicious action). Naomi (and Ashley) are sorta dumb but likable through their remorse and that translates to sympathy and anger when they're antagonized.
Date: March 30 2014 12:53 AM Title: Jenna - Part 2
I don’t hate Jenna or anything but it’s kind of hard to sympathise with a character who enjoys inflicting pain on others, whether it’s an unavoidable facet of her nature or not. Yeah she tries to impart lessons while she does so but neither of the lessons we’ve seen really needed physical pain to make them sink in, especially since in both cases she was dealing with a character for whom the ramifications of their actions were already beginning to sink in. She could have just as easily demonstrated this particular lesson with a pencil. Physical abuse seems to be the only way that Jenna can think of to teach things which doesn’t say a lot for her character.
It doesn’t help that the redeeming qualities of Jenna’s character seem to relate primarily to her being an Omega, such as Omegas' inherent protectiveness and kindness towards Betas and the extensive education Omegas apparently get on handling Betas/Alphas and teaching equality. Would she have these same qualities if she were raised as an Alpha like her victims are?
Also what sets this apart from a hazing is that Ashley knows, as Jenna is happy to point out, that they could easily kill her. This introduces a significant element of psychological and emotional trauma on top of the physical abuse. Also the fact that you don’t usually get hazed by family or childhood friends.
The above side this is still very well written and Jenna's not mean enough to specifically dislike, she's just hard to sympathise with.
Author's Response:
As crass as it sounds, I wouldn't have much of a story if they all just sat down and talked, now would I? And I personally feel that Jenna was being immensely self-restrained through this whole thing - literally all she's done is pinched Ashley between her fingers and made her slightly uncomfortable. Everything else has been verbal and psychological.
That's a fair enough question on her upbringing, I suppose, but I don't care for hypotheticals. Would Melody still care for Betas so much if she were born and raised as a normal, everyday Alpha? Would Claire? Hypotheticals can be used to push something just about anywhere, in my eyes at least.
And I dunno, maybe. That's just the outlook and experience I'm taking and applying to this. I also wouldn't call Jenna as "happily" pointing it out, nor ignore the fact that she also made it clear that they're putting every effort they can into not even harming her.
In any case, I appreciate your thoughts and enjoyed reading them.
Author's Response:
As crass as it sounds, I wouldn't have much of a story if they all just sat down and talked, now would I? And I personally feel that Jenna was being immensely self-restrained through this whole thing - literally all she's done is pinched Ashley between her fingers and made her slightly uncomfortable. Everything else has been verbal and psychological.
That's a fair enough question on her upbringing, I suppose, but I don't care for hypotheticals. Would Melody still care for Betas so much if she were born and raised as a normal, everyday Alpha? Would Claire? Hypotheticals can be used to push something just about anywhere, in my eyes at least.
And I dunno, maybe. That's just the outlook and experience I'm taking and applying to this. I also wouldn't call Jenna as "happily" pointing it out, nor ignore the fact that she also made it clear that they're putting every effort they can into not even harming her.
In any case, I appreciate your thoughts and enjoyed reading them.
Date: March 29 2014 11:00 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
I've hesitated to comment on your stories because quite frankly anything I would have to say has been covered better by other people, but I can say this for good or bad you have people thinking.
Anyway I guess I'll try to say something constructive. I like how you adress the thought process of your characters it makes you really feel bad for Ashley and really hate Jenna not because Jenna's inherently bad ( even though she's s little harsh..or alot harsh) but because Ashley is so frightened of her. At least that's how I see it.
As far as reprocussions I see this as being an act that shames all parties invovled and looms over every interaction these four have in the future. Say whatever you want but they ALL need to regret this day.
Author's Response:
As much as I tend to defend Jenna, I'm glad that Ashley's fear had that effect despite Jenna's actions themselves being so benign.
Insofar as repercussions go...well, I'm increasingly getting the feeling that some people will be dissatisfied with where I go with them.
Date: March 29 2014 10:46 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
Interesting chapter. I have to admit its not what I had expected.
Jenna makes some good points as usual, but this is a Jenna neutral
chapter for me. It didn't lower my opinion of her but it didn't raise
it either.
Anyway, I really do want to see what this does to their
relationship. If you want to put it in another story instead of an
epilogue, that fine but I definitely want to know what happens. In
the end the illusion was broken for Ashley and that demands a change
in their relationship, likely not for the good.
But I want to ask you about this illusion. Ashley acts like
shattering the illusion of equality for this boy was a major part of
what she did wrong, but I feel like its the least of it. The fact is
it was an illusion: Not Real. If he really didn't realize the power
his alpha friends had over him by now... well maybe he deserved the
shock. And if this shock was enough to dissolve his friendships,
maybe they weren’t really friends to begin with. You can't have a
friendship based on a lie, the real test is if he can be friends with
them knowing the power they have over him but trusting them not to
abuse it.
And if his friendships could dissolve that easily, it seems it
show the world the omegas are trying to build is impossible. I know
they want betas to be safe and confident, but pretending betas and
alphas are equals is dangerous especially in a mixed society. This
situation with Ashley shows that it doesn't take a bigot to be a
danger to betas. Ashely's real crime was buying into that illusion in
the first place.
I don't see why they are trying to make the sizes live together
(aside from making an interesting GTS story) in the first place. The
power divide is just too great. If this was real life I would
advocate segregation.
P.S I feel kind of bad about writing elaborate serious arguments
for each of your chapters, but your stories just bring out the
armature philosopher in me :)
Author's Response:
I won't neccessarily disagree on some of these things. I think you have a more negative approach to this than I do, though, and I feel the illusion is very important in laying a foundation for a world where it's no simple illusion, where no one really does have to worry about being abused by a larger being because it's become so ingrained in everyone's heads that they do need to respect and adhere to the wishes of people smaller than them. That's certainly the world the Omegas want, and they obviously feel that Betas should be able to live and go wherever they damn well please.
Date: March 29 2014 10:33 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
There needs to be a cost.
And I don't mean Ashley. Ashley was wrong, she's suffered and learned an important lesson. I think she'll be a better person from here on out.
But the more I think about, the harder it is for me to believe that Ashley would be so carless in the first place given her background. In her shoe? Who realistically thinks that's a good idea?
The Omegas haven't done a good job raising her. The difference between her and them isn't just super senses, it's training. These lessons should have been drilled into her at a young age, when it was easy to shape her properly. She should not have even been allowed into a mix-sizes zone, as an immature teen no less, without extensive training and a solid understanding of the physical gap between her and a beta.
Instead they sheltered her from the horrors of beta abuse. (If the Omegas can take learning it at a young age, there's no excuse in protecting Ashley from the truth.) They've causally carried out punishments in her presence, giving her the illusion that she was above that treatment. And they filled her head with stupid ideas of what she could do with a smaller person. The consent issue is irrelevant at this point. Even if she had asked first, she hasn't got a clue as to the physical limitations of a beta.
So this whole episode has been the Omegas fixing a mess, a failure of their system, the hard way. One they could have easily prevented rather than go "whoops, we better correct that behavior," all high and mighty like. No "well you learned your lesson, go say you're sorry to him, and then we can go back to being best sister/friends." It can't be that easy on them. That's what I mean by there needing to be cost.
I don't know what you have planned later, but I need to know what the cost is in this story. There needs to be an idea of the ramifications. Leaving it vague with a promise of picking it up in another story just won't do. (You can address the costs in other stories after we know what they might be.)
Author's Response:
If it hasn't become clear yet: Ashley, like Naomi, is kind of dumb and not very smart. They're sweet, pretty, compassionate girls, but thinking is not their strong suit. They both got carried away by their seperate desires and ended up suffering for it.
I think you're making a poor assumption on Ashley's handling skills. It's likely that her handling - when using her actual hands - is perfectly fine. But that does not translate to her feet and toes, especially when walking. It is likely that she was overconfident and complacent in her skill. She had no way of knowing things were becoming a bit much for the guy, and assumed she was careful enough. There were no safety mechanisms in place between the two of them, which I feel goes along with the matter of consent.
Ashley is not a stranger to Beta abuse. If there was any failing, though, it was impressing only the concept of malicious abuse upon her. And yeah, they certainly should have stressed the more passive abuse that Claire covered much earlier for her. But either they didn't focus on it enough or it didn't click with her. Even Claire almost made the same mistake she did, though, despite the difference in context, and Claire has certainly gotten a lot more talking to on the general subject than Ashley has.
And I'm sorry, but they didn't fill her head with shit. That was Claire's private business being aired out by her frequent partner, without her consent to share it.
And dead honest, I think you're heavily overblowing what the girls are doing to Ashley. It may just come down to differences in experiences, but I frankly see this as no more than the mild hazing I've experienced and what close friends of mine have experienced on their sports teams/fraternities/sororities. I'll tell you straight up that if you think this needs to end with these relationships being utterly shattered, you're probably not gonna like the ending. Because the harshest thing they've done in my eyes is just be brutally honest with her about what she did. At the end of the day, it's ~half an hour of being treated kind of roughly and heavily scolded. There's going to be fallout over Ashley understanding the realities of her relationship with three girls that completely dwarf her, but 16 years of loving, sororal relationships aren't going to break apart and die because of a half hour of them being Kinda Mean, especially when the three bigger girls are going to keep being there for her (and that's before her mother becomes involved). They aren't just going to say "We're done here" and throw her body on the floor before walking off for tea and cakes.
I'm going to leave a good idea of Ashley's thoughts moving forward, but the stuff with the Beta boy is certainly going to be revealed elsewhere.
I also apologize if any of the above comes off as kinda dickish. That's ultimately how I talk and it kinda sucks.
[Report This]Date: March 29 2014 9:53 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
Jenna so far is living up to my defense of her. She hasn't gone overboard physically and honestly her words are having far more effect.
Honestly it makes sense in that Omegas are given strict classes before they can officially even touch a beta, naturally they would have a sense of how to handle an Alpha as well. But how many Alphas, even well intentioned ones, know how to handle a Beta?
Jenna painted a very interesting picture and one that casts a lasting method. If it goes no further than this, or at least not much further than this it cements Jenna as one of my favorites.
Author's Response:
The way I generally consider it is that handling a Beta itself isn't too hard - treat one like you would an egg, basically. The real issue comes when you want to do more than just hold one in your hand and get really involved with one - hence 'Work' where the Alpha parents sign up for training so they can handle their infant Beta.
That was a little picture I've wanted to do for a while, and I'm glad it piqued your interest. Also glad you're enjoying Jenna.
[Report This]Date: March 29 2014 9:22 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
Wow this was not what I was expecting but it was still a very poignant and hard hitting chapter. It was completely with Jenna's character to hit Ashely with some cold hard truth like she did with Naomi in Consequences. Good job!
Also I'm fine with no epilogue since that can technically take place in Consequences should you decide to continue it.
Author's Response:
Thank you for the compliment and your continued readership. I definitely kept 'Boil' up while writing this one.
Date: March 29 2014 9:08 PM Title: Jenna - Part 2
I sense the real pain is coming in the next one, still don't like Jenna. Not at all. I am curious about what you have planned in future stories, will you ever go back to the three girls?
Author's Response:
We'll have to see next chapter, I suppose.
And which three girls? I have two sets :P