Date: June 17 2021 1:28 AM Title: Chapter 1
Do you intend to write and render again? I miss your work. Definitely one of my favorite GTS artists.
[Report This]Date: August 13 2017 9:23 AM Title: Chapter 26
Stop agreeing with me with me about your writing sucking. No, wait, I didn’t say your writing sucks. I said “talented”, “skilled”, “professional and interesting.” So you’re not agreeing...wait am I agreeing?
No. Now I’m confused....
You seem to be of the opinion that my criticism comes from my desire for a Hollywood ending. I totally don’t need a happy ending, I need an Eli I can root for. Even one that fails.
I totally know this is a humiliation story, and I totally know Eli has no chance of accomplishing anything. But I want to see him try. He stops being the character you’ve established at critical points in the story, his internal resources just evaporate at random moments and it seems so unnatural. So clunky.
The big characters are stupid, shallow, lazy, feckless, fickle and just plain boring. That’s okay. You have established that everyone who doesn’t have the shrink gene is has anti-social personality disorder. That’s fine.
That means you have no reason to have these strange “gaps” in Eli’s abilities in the story. He’s a song writer and he is insightful, he should be able to communicate in a way that tells your audience he is trying his best.
This last chapter, when Talia was threatening to bind him all he said was “Do whatever you want.” If he had at least attempted to engage her, something like “Don’t you even care about the harm you do?” Being a brainless, sociopath she could completely blow him off and still bind him and humiliate him. But we would know Eli was trying.
There is no way for him to get control, so you don’t need to make him as stupid and shallow as your giant characters. Just keep having them stomp all over him to your hearts content...but give us an Eli who is trying. An Eli who deserves the victory he will never have. Even if he never wins at anything. The power and the lack of character in your thoughtless, uncaring biggies will ensure all the losses you could want.
The idea that his big heart and principles are unnoticed by a bunch of oversized idiots is not a reason to make them stop shining through for us to see.
Infact, the bathroom scene (inspite of the clunkily convenient appearance of Winter and Talia) illustrates my point. Being selfish and stupid they only see a problem, we see someone trying desperately to aid another human being. And since she’s a premie, actually allowing Eli to help Gwen would have gained him nothing, and when the stupid giants saw the blood, they could’ve still come up with some stupid reason to get Eli in trouble.
Make your bad guys work a little and they might be more interesting. Stop making luck Eli’s enemy. Your giant moron brigade is sufficiently undefeatable that they don’t need luck. They have their own lack of brains and empathy to accomplish all the horrors you could want.
I am not expecting anything resembling physical heroics. You’ve made it completely clear that that is just impossible. But, his moral heroics of chapter 25 were such an awesome moment. Eli can try and fail and still be so worthy of your audience. At least until binding hollows him out.
Peace
pix
[Report This]Date: August 11 2017 6:32 AM Title: Chapter 26
No one is going blame me for no new chapter!
If you’re going to throw down the gauntlet like that, I’m going to turn my inner Pauline Kael to “full bitch.” But not all the way to 11...that would be too mean. And yes, I know she was a cinema critic and not a literary critic. Don’t be picky...that’s my job.
I though you were writing a love letter to me with this chapter. Because who doesn’t love being proven right? It’s all here, desperate premies missing binding...Eli getting punishment while Winter gets advancement ....and of course Winter is getting a feeling of justification as she abuses Eli...you might as well give me co-author credit. (By the way, those were not suggestions, those were warnings that your work was getting predicable...just saying.)
Well, truth be told, there is not a lot of new stuff going on in this chapter. You’ve spent the majority of the story emphasizing Eli’s second class citizenship. This is the same story with different costumes.
Since Eli has zero chance of succeeding you have no suspense. Since Winter has no chance of failure you have no suspense.
Since Talia is just another giantess who can’t think and binds Eli, there is nothing new there. Saying she doesn’t bind and binding him twice in the narrative is not really a twist, it is the same old thing. The fact that she is a “level 5“ and so inanely stupid leads one to ask if this is a world where one gets a pilots license by going to Walmart and taking a really tough test. The test has one question: do you want to be a pilot? If you can spell yes, congratulations, you are a pilot. At least the standards aren’t so low they’ve made it multiple choice...yet.
I was impressed with the hospital scene at first. It featured good character work initially, but in the end it was just another “Winter gets what she wants” scene. And it being another “Eli loses” scene, because his kindness feeds Winter’s stalker mentality, is not any kind of bonus.
Eli’s encounter in the latrine was strange and interesting, until you had the two giantesses “just happen” to poke their noses in. You really need to stop relying on silly coincidences.
Coincidence is not a writer’s friend, though it can seem like one. It is hackneyed and tired and obvious. It drags your work down.
Overall this was a chapter without a lot of point, unless you are telling Winter’s story. Which, by every rule of fiction,you are. She is the one making decisions that drive the narrative, she is the one achieving objectives (without effort or risk. ) She is certainly making an effort to be the most boring, unchallenged protagonist in history.
Favoritism, like coincidence, is not a writer’s friend either. Mary Sue is not a way to challenge yourself as a writer. This is not really a new experience to anyone who has played a table top RPG with a certain type of GM.
GM: The road is blocked...it looks like there is a parade in your way.
Eli: Okay, so the road is blocked? I went through the alley.
GM: You encounter a big mugger who wants you to give him your money.
Eli: I pull out my gun and tell him to bugger off.
GM: Your gun is empty.
Everyone at the table: What? No it isnt!
GM: Yes it is: I rolled for it. It’s empty.
Everyone at table: No you didn’t!
GM: Yes I did...it’s definitely empty.
Eli: Well, the mugger doesn’t know that. I haven’t fired at him, It’s just a gun in my hand and I’m telling him to take a hike.
GM: Oh, he knows. He’s an ex-special forces commando who can tell a gun is empty just by looking at it.
Everyone at the table: There’s no way to do that with this model!
GM: Well...he can. It’s a super power.
Eli: A super powered ex-special forces commando hanging out in an alley mugging people? Uh huh....I think I know where this is heading.
GM: What are you going to do?
Eli: I give him my money and my gun..since it’s useless any way...
GM: He shoots you in the leg...
Everyone else at the table: What? You said it was empty!
Eli: Uh huh...
GM: He’s a commando; It works for him. What do you do Eli?
Eli: Lets see...I think I’ll fall down and bleed...oh...and moan “Who will save me?” No, not moan I’ll swoon. Definitely swoon “Who will save me?”
GM: Well by an amazing coincidence...
Everyone else at the table: Aw no...not again...
Eli: Amazing...uh huh...
GM: Winter enters the alley...
Everyone else at the table: Winter? Again? She’s like, 10...
Eli: Great...
GM: Winter disarms the mugger and throws him bodily to the floor....
Eli: Funny how she never seems to have to roll....
GM: I already rolled for her...anyway, she leaps over the fallen mugger and administers first aid to your leg....
Eli: And she just happened to be there...
GM: Who do you think the parade was for?
It seems like you are spending a lot of effort and what you are producing resembles Orwell’s 1984 with Winston Smith portrayed by Wile E. Coyote ...without being funny.
The difference is Y. Eli Coyote loves Big Sister in every chapter lately.
There really is nowhere for Eli to go in this tale. With no chance for success and no ability to initiate any action, he is just going to go deeper into the hole that is his existence.
In the last chapter, he made the right decision, he failed. The consequences of his actions are barely relevant. He has gone from King Leonidas moral courage to King Sisyphus’s punishment in hell. His punishment for failure giving us a view of the rest of his existence. Pointless, repetition. He is in hades, paying the price for his good intentions and courage.
I cannot say he is a victim of his own kindness and good will, I admire that he is willing to take risks to bring those things in himself out, he is more a victim of a malignant destiny, and the magic field of luck that seems to surround all those who mean him harm.
But every person he meets is either going to more powerful than him and in favor of (or simply unconcerned that they are) damaging his soul. Or they will be crazy, weak and useless.
More detail may follow, like having Ashley explain how she forgot they put an object the size of a coke can into her body and she forgot. More of that amnesia I love so much? But really, with no chance of affecting the arc of the story, it has no point. It is simply set dressing behind the story of Winter getting everything she wants handed to her on a silver platter.
From a certain perspective, Eli's tale has been told. He made the right call and paid for it...that was the climax. The rest...well...is not really his story...it is simply detail...it is not his tale, it just happens to him.
Naturally, Eli is the title character, some might argue that he is your protagonist. Well, let’s examine that in light of your message. What are you trying to say through Eli’s experiences. What, for lack of a better term is the apparent moral of your story? What lessons could he have taken to heart to avoid his circumstance. As near as I can tell it’s “don’t question authority,”“conform,” “obey,” “no matter what your situation, not matter how close you are to it, others know about your situation better than you do and will always be right while you are wrong” and of course “if someone needs your help: narc on them.”
That is really different, I haven’t heard such a daring philosophy, such a bold manifesto, since...uh....grade school.
This tale started out so sad and beautiful. The problem is you’re too good a writer. I’m too much on Eli’s side and having a story that amounts to him getting smacked on the nose with a rolled up news paper...again...and again...and again...is turning into a let down. His part of the story now amounts to a whole lot of clunky coincidences for set ups resulting in soap opera payoffs. And I can tolerate him becoming simply a POV character while your protagonists effortlessly cavort. I was one of those people who actually cared about Dr. Watson’s love life. So his demotion is not the end of the world...just ...meh.
There! One mean review...hope you enjoyed. Next time I’ll bring my thwaking stick.
Seriously, though, keep at it. You clearly have a huge talent and are working with great skill. I find your work to be very professional and interesting. Just because I’m that spoil sport who doesn’t appreciate your freewheeling style is no reason to even care what I say. Keep at your passion...tell your tale...you are a creator, no one can take that away from you.
Peace,
pix
Author's Response:
Wow, my longest review ever?
Great points! I really can't argue -- I'm one of the many writers who thinks their own work sucks.
But that's the beauty of it: there's really no ceiling. There's so many possible 'wrong' turns one can take when creating a story...always leaving room for vast improvement.
You argue convincingly on some things, less so on others, but I like being able to learn from opinions and evidence based argument alike.
This particular story is marked with the 'humiliation' tag. Perhaps the tag should be capitalized or listed first. You might have enjoyed the story more if it didn't have/adhere to that tag. It seems you want Eli to 'triumph', overcome humiliation, become independent, etc. To me *that's* Hollywood and predictable. Though I suppose one could argue a humiliation based conclusion would be predicable for this site.
I'm writing a new story on DA called Evening. I'd recommend you aviod reading that as someone has already mentioned they see parallels to Winter. ;)
As usual, I don't know where Evening is going, but I'm sure even without reading it *you* do. :) (haha, ok that was a low blow)
I definitely want to go super deep down the rabbit hole in some story, tragic humiliation to the extreme...if only as a catharsis story.
But I also want to try a story where the protag (e.g. Eli) has more victories in the 'normal' sense, i.e., what most normal readers would consider a victory (e.g., the gun isn't empty and scares the mugger away).
Funny thing is, I actually found your mock story somewhat interesting. Not very, but more than if the gun had caused the mugger to run away.
I'd probably have Eli accidentially shoot the mugger in the arm (hair trigger perhaps and he's not used to guns). The mugger lives, but Eli can't prove self defense. The cops put him in jail. The jail, of course, utilizes the latest miniaturization technology to address overcrowded prison system. Family bails him out but he has to stay small until trial. He's freed on parole and has to do community service painting Winter's toenails for the next year.
Just kidding on that last part! (or am I??!?)
Date: July 31 2017 11:03 AM Title: Chapter 1
Wow, you have dived full on down the world building rabbit hole. Premoria's rules and features are amazing, great job.
Author's Response:
Many thanks! :)
[Report This]Date: July 08 2017 9:44 AM Title: Chapter 26
First. Congratulations on over 100 reviews.
Second. Okay, so it sounds like you want me to post you a mean review? Because it helps inspire you to write? Don't say stuff like that, because you know I'll do it. I will...really.
pix
Author's Response:
You didn't post a mean review and look what happened! No new chapter. :(
Just kidding of course...well, perhaps not about the chapter.
I've got it written but it's missing something. Story is on hold while I work on a different one on DA.
Thanks for all your reviews, even the critical ones! They help me get better as an author.
Date: July 07 2017 1:51 PM Title: Chapter 26
A second chapter within a couple days? What is this, Christmas? That being said, I do agree with some of Pix's concerns. I love the world and characters you've created, especially Eli and Parker, but I will be rather disappointed if this stories ends in Eli losing himself to become a mindless pet.
I'm very afraid that Eli taking the fall for the cutting will lead to more time in Premoria prison. I hope he can get back home again and isn't stuck here forever, because it clearly isn't for him.
I can't believe Talia. As someone who used to be a Premie herself, she should feel some sort of sympathy for them. But instead she's treating them like her own personal pets. It's disgusting.
I feel like it shouldn't be possible for Eli to take the fall for the cutting. What if they bind him and tell him to tell the truth? That's what I would do, if I was them. Then it would all be uncovered.
Hoping for more speedy updates like this one.
Author's Response:
Thanks foreignkanto! Unfortunatly no more speedy updates while the story is on hold. Working on a different one on DA at the moment while I put this one in the slow cooker of my subconscious. :)
Date: July 07 2017 12:44 PM Title: Chapter 1
Thanks for picking this up again. I know how hard it is. Some of the stories are like "I need my fix!"; and this is one of them. I eagerly await the next chapter. Keep it up.
Author's Response:
Thank you, littless! I've written the next chapter but it doesn't feel write, so I'm holding off on posting it. Unfortuntaely the entire story is on hold. But I'm writing another story on my DA account at the moment.
[Report This]Date: July 05 2017 6:16 PM Title: Chapter 25
Still with you here, Spook! Awesome personal developement within the story. So subtle, and yet, ...so powerful. I've been trying to predict what's coming - and you've thrown me a hook every time! Lol! ...been following closely though, really great writing (Professional style and quality) Hopefully, I can pick up some of your talent!!
Author's Response:
Hey there midnight! You've got quite a lot of talent yourself, especially with your latest story, which I need to catch up on. Back in my Splinter's Edge days, I think you were one of my first reviewers, so essentially you helped push me down the path to write. Thanks!
[Report This]Date: July 05 2017 12:23 PM Title: Chapter 25
@pixl8ed that comment was impressive,
This story is very good excited to see what happens next.
Author's Response:
He always writes impressive comments, and I'm thankful for it, but I also enjoy simple reviews like this one! Thanks, SoinaGirl!
[Report This]Date: July 04 2017 7:17 AM Title: Chapter 25
This chapter was really different and interesting. It was great to see Eli aiming higher, being more active in the story and making choices that had an effect.
If Eli has burned the bridge to Premoria, so be it. It is fascinating to see him try to do a good thing and it cost him his hopes and dreams. In a sense he is like Leonitis of Sparta in that he is sacrificing his aspirations for his principles. Against impossible odds, even. A noble defeat can have so much more impact than a victory.
The impact of this excellent chapter has been undermined by the previous chapters, however. It isn’t making one go “will Eli succeed?” It makes one wonder “how will he fail this time?” And the moment Elona mentions chipping, we suspect how. The suspense of the attempt to rescue Ashley is stillborn, replaced with “Oh look, a new story element, how long til it makes Eli wrong or humiliated or lessens him in some way?" Breaking the rule that your charachter has to have some success has become just another rule. It is descending into cliche'.
To be honest, I feel a little set up. A lot of the devices, and situations that have become devices or cliche’s in this story are here. Ashley forgot she was chipped? That’s a little too convenient. Or did you finally introduce a character that wasn’t pro binding and make her insane? Straw man anybody? He came here looking for a life without binding and Parker forgot to mention he needed to let them know in advance? That’s a little too convenient.
Mom finally gets some hint that Eli is being abused on the internet and it just happens to be one that Winter didn’t take part in? That’s a little too convenient. Winter avoids responsibility again. And mom doesn’t notice...again. That tune is getting really old.
I’m really concerned that this dramatic moment isn’t going to change anything.
Eli, who has the least power in this situation will have the most responsibility. It will be just be another excuse to humiliate and lessen him further, to make him “wrong," like everything else in this tale. Plus, I am expecting some sort of non-disclosure contract to come into play. So Eli won’t even be able to use his YouTube celebrity. Or he’ll be so undermined by the accusations that it will come to naught. And thanks to binding, he won’t be able to hold this moment in his heart...to use it to make himself stronger. I realize you are seeking to be “different." But to what end? If this proud moment of courage and decisiveness leads to just more wheels spinning, what is it different than? I mean, you can only emulate the end of “happy games" so many times. If your purpose in every chapter is to demonstrate life is unfair...well, I think most people know that. If your purpose is to create a feeling of depression and frustration...over and over and over...what are you accomplishing as a writer?
And I’m seeing the same old Winter situation in our future. Nothing touches her. Here, I fear, we will only see her taking some responsibility for Eli’s actions, not her own. She will simply enjoy her “punishment” and will come out of this situation unchanged...probably worse...feeling more justified in her abuse of Eli. If she has all this power over him, where is her responsibility? Nowhere. Is a watcher supposed to be responsible or not? Is Eli empowered (and thus responsible) or not? If it just leads to just more of the big people having it both ways, it’s really pushing the boundaries of tolerable illogic. This is hinted at in this very chapter. She has just demonstated her incompetence as a watcher and so is immediatley given free reign to "discipline" Eli.
So in essence, it will just lead to more of the same. The same relationships played out the same way over and over again. The same tune repeated, only louder.
I would strongly encourage you to cut the redundant characters from the story. Everyone in Eli’s life will disrespect him or ignore his suffering. That tale has been told. Every revisit to those interactions is territory already covered. Does Ashley have any family? Maybe there could be a source of people who interact with Eli in a different way. A source of some variety of characters. Of course when it turns out that some of them are colluding with the owners of Premoria so they can control the rights to her music, you can make this into a defeat for him too.
While I feel my pessimism is justified based on previous chapters, you might just surprise the heck out of me. This chapter sure did. But there have been lots of wasted opportunities before. And the relationships around Eli are a tangle that doesn’t seem worth sorting through because they all lead to the same place. But there has been so much to love about this story. Your ability to create characters that we find ourselves rooting for is really on display here. When the emotions are real and the characters are affecting each other it is so fascinating and potent. I would really love to see more of that.
Thank you,
Pix
Author's Response:
I enjoy reading your reviews, Pix. Perhaps its masochism, but seeing the ways I fail as an author makes it even more rewarding when I, in spite of criticisms, finish the next chapter.
Perhaps it is a 'vanity' piece, something I'm just writing for myself, failing my readers left and right. I try not to look to deeply into it. I just sit down and let the story come out. It's raw. Perhaps it's also cliche, broken, full of straw men and whatever else you said, but I've truly enjoyed writing every chapter.
If you stop reading the story, you'll be less frustrated. But then, ten year's later, you'll remember something from it. You'll check and see if it ever got done. Then you'll jump to the last chapter and read it first. :)
[Report This]Date: July 03 2017 9:27 PM Title: Chapter 25
Always a pleasure to read your stuff and your renders are interesting too.
Every chapter feels like a natural progression of the story. The mother is not unrealistic, but she is to detached and If she doesn't change and I was in Eli shoes and grew up, I would act indifferent to her and seek as little contact as possible.
Author's Response:
Eli's mother is quite busy. It's not easy raising three kids as a single mom, so personally, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for the review, barrowman!
Date: July 03 2017 12:59 PM Title: Chapter 25
Holy shit. Things got real fast. You've been leaving hints that's something is wrong at Premoria for a long time, and now those are finally coming to fruition. Sadly their premie prison break wasn't succesful. It's truly horrifying how they keep them there, and then they after Eli and Ashley are caught, they bind them both into submission. It's a really brutal thing to read, both of them crying and screaming in desperation before being put into a controlled state.
I was worrying this story was gone, and I clicked on this chapter as soon as I saw it. It's such a good story. I'm excited for what comes next. Eli needs to speak with Parker again at some point, find out what really goes down in Premoria. That is, if he can ever escape with his mind intact.
Author's Response:
Yes, Parker might have warned him. Who knows the reasons why she chose to leave Premoria. She doesn't seem particularily averse to binding, so perhaps she simply didn't want to seek a job as a watcher after becoming human. Looks like Eli may find out all he needs to know himself during his week of 'imprisonment'. Ty for the review!
Date: June 19 2017 6:46 PM Title: Chapter 1
In reading some of the reviews here the phrase "too much time on ones hands" comes to mind. I only have one thing to say: PLEASE, may we have more, soon?
Author's Response:
Your wish has been granted! Latest chapter posted. :)
[Report This]Date: June 11 2017 12:55 PM Title: Chapter 1
I wanna start before my review, any good music recommendz? More experimental the better.
Go take a moment to think, then read the rest after linking 'em xP Greatly Appreciated!
Now onward into the expanse.. This is the first g/t related tale I've been able to live with a chapter, much less the entirety. I'm talking many winters ago. I'm gonna be very forward. I see you deconstructing and subverting the colloquial canon of g/t relationships. Key elements pushing towards the dynamic of the original lilliputia, however to the apprehension of almost every human character. The story offers sympathetic treatment of the topic of gynophobia, masking it as gigantophobia. And, in addition to all that, does an expose on the dangers of psychological malpractice which enables emotionally abusive behaviors and the gradual destruction of one's sense of self (a.k.a. free will).
This is a marvelous work of influence on society in general, and makes me proud to have considered myself a part of the g/t community. I'm done flattering a swear xD I did dry heave a bit at them eating 'hotdogs' (offends my vegetarian sensibilities to imagine that kinda stuff). Not a matter of preference I make my praise, but merely recognizing the good.
I'll say though you've set yourself a tall order to really bring home the lesson of abusing hypnosis, but I think you can maybe bring out the water works by falling back on that seen of almost-rape at just the right moment when emotions are already very piqued. Perhaps also pokes from Parker's remorse of abusing it, or others. Bring these semi-sad moments back to the reader in quick succession after the melancholy's already there, and pop EXPLODE! I believe in ya, just please don't ignore it and let devoted readers write it off as nothing, when it's clearly not.
...
You really should go to Sizecon. This community really could use your influence. Anywayz, look forward to checking ur recommendz. Pota-toe Chip-Chip Fruity Cheerioes~!
Author's Response:
Experimental? I'm not sure what that is, but I'd be interested in knowing your favorite(s). Feel free to email.
My favorite music can be depressing so I shy from recommending it. Songs like Damien Rice's 9 crimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgqOSCgc8xc and Concrete Blonde's Tomorrow Wendy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCwIHwSt8RU. They make me *feel* and I never grow tired of them. Perhaps it's similar to what you mentioned in your review...a desire to experience an explosion of emotion. Well, those two songs do it for me. Again, I don't recommend them and I certainly listen to less sorrowful stuff, but they're a couple of my true favs.
I like reading your analysis. Since I suffer from depression myself, I feel perhaps some of that bleeds into the story. It's odd when I hear dark words like 'melancholy' and 'destruction' from reviewers since this story doesn't strike me as particularily dark/sad. Yet. It certainly has the potential of progressing in that direction. I'm kinda hoping it doesn't, but since I discovery write, it's hard to know what will happen.
Sizecon...wow, such a thing exists. Interesting. I tend to avoid social situations, but thanks for recommending and ty for the review!
[Report This]Date: June 05 2017 12:19 AM Title: Chapter 24
I certainly hope the message you got from my review wasn’t “be like every other author.” ‘Cuz that wasn’t what I was saying at all.
What I was saying was, don’t repeat yourself. Don’t let your story be the same beat over and over again. Don’t let everything and everyone but Eli have your perspective, your agenda...over and over...character after character...until it is obvious that your agenda paints the world with slightly different shades of the same color.
I have to say that I am not anti binding as a story element. I am anti having everyone in Eli’s life treat it so casually. Yes, I would personally never do it someone. But that is the point, where is the variety of humanity in your story? Where are the people like me? Does everyone have anti social personality disorder? Can all these people tell themselves they “love” Eli and lack empathy for him? What is love without empathy? By the way, even sociopaths have empathy for people they love, they just don’t have it for strangers.
While I do feel that binding can be a legitimate element of the story. I feel that the panic attacks and other excuses to make Eli dependant on it are horribly contrived. Also the "cure all" aspect of it is pretty hard to swallow. Though, these concerns take a back seat to my issue with everyone who uses it failing to see it as a particularly ugly form of coercion or just plain force.
So far every character in the story seems to go “Oh, mind control. That’s convenient.” and avoids the moral/empathic implications. That’s 100% of people not thinking about the person they are imposing their will upon and having the same opinion.
Also, 100 percent of the people around him have betrayed him. I really shouldn’t have to go into it character by character. 100 percent.
Do you see where I’m going with this?
So far, the only person in his life who I would call capable of redeeming himself is Carter. Carter’s absence is deafening. I’m not saying he has to be beneficial to Eli. But it would be at least a little different to have someone not working against him.
I am not saying that Eli needs to win win win. It is perfectly legitimate for him to try and fail. I’m pretty sure the quote you are trying to remember would make similar point. I’m saying that 100 percent of the story elements (including himself) smacking him in the face like he’s a Vogon with an original thought, is a poor performance on your part. Things like the bit with the stuffed animal, where Eli has a chance to get some little bit of freedom and shoots himself in the foot. When he’s been so passive in the story and he finally is doing something and it is so obviously against his goals, that is as though you just wrote a note to us that said “I’m just not going to let Eli achieve anything ....” and called it a chapter. I’m not offended that Eli didn’t win. I’m offended that you had him act so out of character, so obviously against his own interests, that he was clearly a puppet for your agenda.
Also, when he tries, there is suspense there. If you do things that make it obvious you are working against him then every scene where he tries, well, we know it doesn’t matter, because you are not going to let him accomplish anything. It’s not a case of “paint drying” it is a case of you wasting your audience’s time because your agenda is obvious.
Even his own quest for dignity is a tool for his humiliation. I would like to see him grow as a character and move pass being in denial about how he's always going to be the weakest person in the room. He should, by now, simply be saying "I can't" when presented with a physical challenge. Because you've only show us that he can't do anything.
On your points,
Point 1. Chaos and rule breaking are fine, but if they lead to predictability, what’s the point?
Point 2. I could not agree more. But it is the choices characters make that drive the narrative....if you give your character no choice you have no story. You are reducing the readers experience to something less than voyeurism. In your paint drying scenario. The giantess chooses to paint the wall. She chooses to bring her pet along. He chooses to make comments. She chooses to do something about his observations or she chooses to leave her work imperfect. It’s not conflict, but it is a story. If you aren’t giving Eli any choices, you aren’t giving your reader any story and you aren’t giving us any reason to care. Or you are simply making it so (as I stated) Eli is no longer your protagonist and the giant characters are taking that role and making all the choices. All the while risking nothing.
Point 3. I really don’t care about any of the giant characters you mention. They are all the same, with the same philosophy and the same relationship with Eli. You could drop them all and move Eli to Premoria where he can have new relationships that feature some variety and it would be fine with me. At least until one of them actually has some capacity for introspection...not the idle kind that Ally and the rest of them indulge in....but the kind that brings about a change in the character. So there might be some variety in them. I have to say that chapter 22 (the sleepover) simply showed how redundant they all are. If they all just participate in humiliating Eli to such an extent, and they are all (100 percent of them) cool with it, why do we need so many of them? You have made Eli so weak and isolated and incapable of imposing consequences, that one ten year old can do everything you had done by four characters. And I wouldn’t have missed a one of them.
Like characters, stories have a life to them....like a real person there are contrasts within them. While a story can have an over arching philosophy, it is toxic to have everyone have the same philosophy. Or have one character have a philosophy and everyone else have the opposite philosophy. You need shades and contrasts...otherwise you have a world that is Eli and Eveyone Else. So really you only have two characters. This isn’t me saying, “gotta have conflict in every scene” it’s me saying “why does every character have to interact with Eli the same way?” I mean, really, it is so easy for everyone to control and humiliate Eli I couldn’t even call it “conflict.”
Point 4. To put a fine point on what I meant to say, especially about the doctor, I think someone besides Eli should be able to see things from Eli’s perspective. The doctor praising the disease should not be something only I notice. Eli’s mom, the nurse, should kind of say “So it’s fine with you that Eli becomes a pet? You think he should just accept that?” That should be promptly followed by “We are leaving...I’ll be in touch with the state medical board.” While she’s thinking “Lawsuit! Money problems: solved!”
Point 5. Yes, some victories would be good in my perspective. But I really want to say is don’t be obvious that you are against the character. If you are pantsing ( I like the term “natural discovery” btw, it just sounds nicer) and you come to a place where Eli would logically make progress....let it happen. If you are going to introduce a new story element or character and all you can see them being is yet ANOTHER obstacle for Eli... and the interference it/they offer is already there in the form of something already introduced...maybe you don’t need that element/character. There is a huge difference between building a brick wall...brick after brick the same..and painting a picture with a variety of colors and elements. You may want to challenge yourself, but what else do you want to accomplish? What do you want to have to show for your efforts?
To clarify, I am not saying don’t be experimental. Don’t be a carbon copy of the movies we all see. But don’t make scenes, characters and story elements that are carbon copies of earlier points and beats. If every scene is “Eli loses” or “Winter gets what she wants” you are treading water story wise. If every character is “yay binding” you are being redundant.
Yes, personally I am rooting for Eli. Yes, I would like to see him have some victories. I would like to see his choices effect the story. I would even like to see him hurt the big people around him if it makes them think about and even have consequences for their actions. But I would stick with him through the horror of dehumanization and subjugation if I believed his story was being told to me in an honest and not contrived way. It would make me sad, but I would see his tale to it’s end.
It is tough to precise in a super long review. I hope this has made some of my perspective clearer. Again, I hope, not in a too mean way. You are deserving of praise for your creativity and efforts. For you courage to experiment and share your work. Thank you again, for your attention.
PixL8Ed
Author's Response:
Oh boy pix, you're not going to like this next chapter (if you're still reading). In my defense, this story writes itself. :)
[Report This]Date: June 03 2017 8:31 AM Title: Chapter 24
Okay, I appreciate your thoughtful response to my review. It convinced me that I should give your story a re-read with your thoughts in mind. I have to say, that you clearly have a great talent for story telling. But as a reader, I find this work particularly unsatisfying.
While i am a writer who is also fond of experiments, it is a bold choice to embrace material that “makes no sense, is boring, or fails to develop the character,” which is not the case in your story, most of the time.
I’m not sure what kind of relationship you feel like embracing with your audience. Or what you feel your responsibilities as a storyteller are. I have a personal feeling that as a writer, you need to keep earning your audience. That characters, story elements and sub plots are promises you need to keep.
I completely understand the desire to be a pantser, the spontaneity of creativity can be intoxicating. But even a panster can be agenda driven and his work can become predicatable to the point of frustrating his audience. The prime example would be the works of John Norman. His Gor books used to be a sort of kinky rip off of the John Carter books set on a world that had a subtext of sexual slavery. They were popular and just literary bubble gum from a less PC age.And used to feature women that were actual characters. But then his agenda took over and every time a female character shows up the reader goes “how long til she’s enslaved and likes it?”
As someone who has made the mistake of investing in Eli and even rooting for him, I see the same effect in this piece. “Oh look, a new story element, how long til it makes Eli wrong or humiliated or lessens him in some way?"
Now I have no delusions about what site this is. There is an audience here that will delight in Eli’s failure an humiliation. If I am simply not your intended audience, it will be very easy to tell me that and I will go away. No hard feelings. Good luck in your future efforts...you can stop reading my review now. Because we are speaking from such different places in the world of writing that I might as well be communicating in Esperanto. (You don’t speak Esperanto, do you?)
Let’s clear the air about binding. Aside from being horrific in principle, it is poisonous to real character conflict and development. You are basically making sure your giant characters are never required (never given the opportunity, if you wished to challenge or develop them) to use compassion or logic or reason. They are never required to see the ugly side of there behavior, because Eli just grins while they are being evil. It also comes off as lazy writing. Like a magic button that you push to alter the character, or soften some truly ugly themes.
Overall this story is a horror story. It is about a character being ground down. Having his character and integrity slowly stripped away from him along with his dignity and his standards. To me it harkens back to the existential horror of the seventies, The Stepford Wives and the like.
Now, I am not about to espouse Eli as some kind of idea human being. Though, I think some of his flaws defy belief or are simply glaring holes in the narrative. The idea that he refuses to research anything seems more like a case of a writer who doesn’t want to talk about (or simply is not ready to explain) aspects of the world he has created. He becomes annoyingly passive and lazy. But for a character his age and in his depressing circumstances these are understandable, even typical, and certainly not fatally flaws. It should be interesting to see him overcome them through maturation and character development. Instead, these perfectly normal aspects of someone his age are used as excuses for those who should be at least supporting him, to destroy his soul and remake it into something that is pleasing to them.
The cruelty with which he is thwarted by those around him is just awful and is treated as casual interaction. Let us say that Eli has been diagnosed with a disease like MS that will render him wheelchair bound. In that light, the other character’s actions become much less forgivable. Winter;"I’ve always wanted a crippled brother I can push around. Wheelchairs are cool!" Alley: “uncontrollable leg spasms made the neighbor girl uncomfortable ...time for a spanking."
Overall his desires to hold on to his dignity and some semblance of his life are ones most people can identify with.
Hooked by the character, I have to say, that I was at first, very much pleased and even compelled by the story. You know, slow shrink has always made the most sense as a mechanic for these stories, so you you made your world no more credible by trying to combine fast and slow with these “spurts.” It is a device clearly intended to make the process simply more embarrassing. But your well crafted narrative had me suspend my disbelief and I felt well rewarded by chapters 6 and 7. The shrinking scene was both heartbreaking and beautiful. It showed such promise. I knew things were going to be rough for Eli, I wanted to stick around to find out how rough. I wanted to know how he was going to deal with it.
Unfortunately I don’t know, neither does he. I cannot understand why you would create a character who is the only one who can give us perspective on his struggle and then have him “check out” when the most important part of his trial is happening. Mental age reduction? Amnesia? These are very useful if you want the character to be undermined for the rest of the story. If you want other characters to know things he doesn’t. If all you want to pursue an agenda of a humiliated Eli. This was simply awful and annoying as a reader, a ridiculous concept that cost the narrative depth and drama, serving only your agenda.
Though, at this point, it does signal the most important change in the story. Eli stops being the protagonist. Everyone else in the story takes up that duty. It is the giant characters that have goals. It is the giant characters who get them. They are driving the narrative and are not working at all to get what they want. Really. How many chapters do you have to give us “Winter wants something, Winter gets something” and call it a story. Eli is just a prop, his desires are just an obstacle for your true protagonists to overcome. And no challenge. There are no consequences for their actions and no possibility of failure.
The story has become a stage on which the giant people enact cruelty upon a character that is slipping away more and more. And they have zero consequences for their inhumanity. Winter attacks Eli’s dreams and goals (I would say his very soul) right in front of their Mother. What does she get? Her level 3 status yanked? Her access to the helpless Eli limited? Some form of punishment to teach her the gravity of her actions? No, their mother talks to her in a stern voice. Wow, moral conflict at it’s best. Of course, all Eli has to do is be an inconvenience or displeasing in some way and he gets subjected to soul destroying mind control. So someone has consequences.
The worst device in entire pieces is the doctor. At best she is much like the Doctor Device of a 50‘s creature feature. “It makes perfect sense that LA is being attacked by giant grasshoppers because I say so and I have a lab coat.” But on a more thoughtful level she is something much more vile. She is not an advocate for her patient. She is an advocate for his disease. She has a vision of Eli as achieving his true potential: as the living equivalent of a Furby. “Cripples make real people feel better about themselves, Eli. Isn’t it nice the disease has given your life a purpose?”
And now we have this travesty that is Premoria. Does it on any level make any sense that a bunch of entrepreneurs would say “We have a potential 2 million customers. People who would be our clients for the rest of their lives. Let’s make this as sucky as possible. We can have rude pushy people introduce our community and hold premies responsible for the behavior of their watchers, cuz that makes all kinds of sense.”
Haley’s comments about Premoria seem confirmed in the more recent chapters. Illusions of purpose. But do you really think that there would be no use for a group of people, ready and willing to work, who can operate in the near-micro scale with ease? Who would be capable of rendering devices with a degree of precision unparalleled in modern manufacturing? Companies the world over would be lined up to engage their services.
Now we have only seen the smallest part of this world, but when the people in control want to show it off, we see desperate premies, incapable of self motivation. You are serving your agenda by making sure that Eli has no choices.
The previous chapter is particularly illustrative. Eli has his chance to, succeed or fail at his current task, show your audience how much he wants his stated goal. How he will struggle to prove himself. Instead it is about Winter calling him stupid. You’ve made my point for me.
Premies would also be the ultimate in quality control Any maker of small, precise items would rush to have them working for them.. Lets not forget this doctor you mentioned. What? He works as a doctor but his wife hoovers over him ready to bind him. And of course she gets all the money he earns and he sleeps in a gerbil cage. What are you trying to tell us about the world you’ve created? What are you trying to tell us about the victims of the shrinking gene? What are you trying to tell us about Eli?
Haley is particularly obnoxious, because her rants imply there is one right way to be a premie. Then why are we reading your story? Just tell us what “the right kind of premie” is and that Eli was in denial until he became one. That’s the story you’ve been telling for the last 15 chapters.
Look, I see so much going on that is intriguing. So much that is compelling.
I feel for Winter on a certain level. She’s had her father figure just leave and the idea of Eli leaving must be terrifying to her. It would be so destructive to her self esteem, it would leave a hole in her heart. But you have, in service to your agenda, indulged her and all the other characters far too much. It is well past the point that Eli should have looked at all of them and said “You. You are the reason I need to leave.” They need some consequences.
If Eli doesn’t push back in an effective manner, (please, no more contrived, agenda driven scenes like the bit with the stuffed animal) if he continues to just be someone who is “allowed” all his actions or is just a prop with POV, you are betraying readers like me who feel they were promised an interesting protagonist at the onset of the story. If you want to make a story about him becoming a sissy sub you should probably just write a sex story.
I’m not someone saying, “give Eli super powers" or “give Eli a cure, now" (though a dangerous cure could be an interesting development....would people be more thoughful if they saw that the premies in their lives would take a, say 35 percent, chance of death rather than continue on in their situation?) I just want to see Eli be a driving part of his story.
You hooked me. You created Eli and his situation. You are telling a story that is capable of great depth and drama. You have more than one kind of audience and I don’t want to keep coming back to your story out of morbid curiosity, I want to see some story happen.
Of course, what I want is not what matters. What matters is what you want. You are the creator, the storyteller. You have an engaged audience it seems, based on your reviews. And deservedly so. So, all i can offer you is a point of view. I hope I have made myself understood and not been too mean. I feel I have right to be honest because I have invested my time and attention in your work. Please don’t let the ramblings of one opinionated reader spoil your fun or undermine your enthusiasm for writing. Even if i were to give up on Eli’s story I would still check out any future story you might post, your work is that intriguing and well imagined.
I thank you for your time and your efforts.
PixL8Ed
Author's Response:
Well, that has to be the record for my longest review ever! Thanks for taking the time to write it.
Obviously you care enough about the story to write a miniature review/story in resopnse to it, so I'll do my best to reply to a few things you bring up.
As for embracing experiments, that's what I try to do with every story I create. I like the thought of a 'boring' scene. For example, a giantess and her pet man watch paint dry. Literally. Such a scenario is still exciting to me because she's a giantess (and she's not trying to kill her 'pet'). Yet the burden still falls on me as the author to introspect and determine 'why' I'm excited (or whatever I'm feeling) and convey the emotion to the readers. Perhaps she's exhausted from painting the room and wants nothing more than to sit with her pet for a few minutes, admiring her handiwork while he jokingly points out imperfections visible only to him.
As writers, we're always told 'gotta have conflict in every scene', 'gotta keep promises to the reader', 'gotta have character progression'. I can't watch 80% of Netflix because of these hallmarks of storytelling. It's so predictable, I get bored in the first thirty minutes. In real life, we don't have conflict every day (some days are just boring -- though I'm sure one could use a broad definition of conflict to 'prove' me wrong). Promises certainly aren't kept. 'Character's (people) come in and out of our lives, never to be seen or heard from again. There's not always happy endings. Sometimes things just get worse and worse.
Now, I realize folks often read fiction to escape. It's fiction -- i.e., not real. However, I like to define the unrealities and limit them. A giantess is unreal enough and I'm extremely interested in reading stories where the rest of the world is as real as possible simply because I'd love to see/experience a giantess relationship in real life.
As for the doctor, she's pro-binding. I still haven't shown much of the binding free zone in Premoria. It's entirely possible that there's ideological differences, much like pro-choice/pro-life divisions in our own society. You're clearly anti-binding so of course you'd find the doctor detestable. And you're not alone. Perhaps there is something sinister at work behind the concept of binding, it's too early in the story to tell for sure. Either way, it opens the door for a deep seated conflict that splits both humans and premies.
Unfortunately, I cannot really argue against many of your other points. I agree I broke my own realism rule by adding too many unrealistic concepts (binding, age regression, amnesia, etc). And honestly, I've got too many dangling promises. But I do like the characters and I'm curious about them. I do see Eli as having goals, well at least one goal of getting to Premoria. Binding is simply an obstacle in his path. Perhaps it is a 'horrific' obstacle since it has the potential of changing his very thought process, but it's an obstacle nonetheless.
You appear to be rooting for Eli, you want to see him have a victory as you define it. But back to the 'reality' concept, very often the 'protag' in real life simply fails. What if Eli became his sister's 'pet' or a 'sissy sub' as you put it? To me, that too is fascinating, though it would likely need a strong twist of some sort since I've read too many pet stories. I like not knowing how my own stories will end, though the drawback is that many of my stories simply never end and sometimes I end up in situations where I'm stuck.
But if I experiment and fail, sometimes that's even better. I forget the quote, but it's something about failures being more important than success in life if you learn from them.
I've learned a few things.
1. I still love chaos, experimenting, and breaking 'rules of storytelling.' BTW, watched re:zero anime recently and is one of my top 5 favs now. They broke tons rules. So many broken promises. Main POV trained but never became proficient. Failed again and again. Some did NOT like it, but many LOVED it. Most couldn't help but admit it made them FEEL something. That brings me to my second point.
2. Put characters first. Readers will follow compelling characters through anything. I love characters that feel alive and make me feel the same.
3. If I'm going to experiment, I need to be less lazy. I'm not sure lazy is the right word, but I do need to keep more promises. I.e., I feel guilty about not having more scenes with other characters, e.g., Ally, Perker, Zoey. By introducing these characters and especially giving them some POV time, I made the promise to include them in future chapters. So in my process of breaking rules and letting things flow, I've made some promises that I may have trouble keeping. So lesson learned: It may be ok to break some promises, but do not neglect a character you introduced especially if given a POV.
4. More reality. This one I got from your review(s). Ultimately much of what you said boils down to this. The Dr., binding, amnesia, etc are simply not believable. So I'm going to try to learn a lesson here and improve. It coincides with what I want anyway in all my stories (at least I want them to avoid devices/dues ex). I've got some ideas for how to achieve this, one of which is to introduce all unrealities in the first chapter or as early as possible.
5. Give the main POV periodic victories toward his goal(s). I suppose this is another of your main points. I still really like to break this 'rule' tho...depending on the story. However, from your reviews, I am learning that it can be a huge turn off for readers if the main POV never gets a break or even a minor victory. So I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks again for such a long and detailed review!
Date: May 12 2017 5:15 PM Title: Chapter 23
Fell off the map a bit on this one, just caught up on the last few chapters.
Holy hell, this is one of the most amazing stories on the site. Love it.
Giant fan of Winter's development as she's become more possessive and protective of Eli. Her behaviour in the small town watching his tractor work is fantastic.
Apologies I don't have more details at the moment, just know that this is killing me.
Author's Response:
Yes Winter has taken more of the spotlight perhaps, but when I write, I just let it flow. There may be loose ends here and there and general chaos, but I like it that way. It more closely resembles real life, no neat and tidy bows.
That being said, the other characters aren't forgotten.
Glad you enjoyed the tractor scene. Thanks for the review!
Date: May 09 2017 2:04 PM Title: Chapter 23
Finally made it through the story. It's an interesting world that's been built here. The whole relationship between humans and premies is a little creepy and unsettling and I'm glad that there's definitely acknowledgement of that with Eli and the Premoria community. I'm really hoping we get to see it come to a head when Eli is able to afford to go live there. All in all it's an interesting story you have and I'll be watching to see where it goes.
Author's Response:
Thanks for the review! I agree, it is a bit creepy and unsettling. Judging from the latest chapter, the initial glimpses of Premoria don't seem to be all that less creepy. Here's to holding out hope for the rest of the city. :)
Date: April 23 2017 7:39 AM Title: Chapter 23
Okay, let me be honest. You are clearly a skilled and capable author. But I do not feel I can trust you as an author. This story, so far, is so full of contrivances that serve no other purpose than to undermine your title character.
His objectives are ones most people can identify with, independence, self-determination, something resembling the minimum amount of respect any person deserves. Yet in pursuit of these very reasonable goals he find nothing but humiliation and army of people (who have it so much better than him) telling him he’s wrong.
And every time he’s “proven” wrong it just smells like a pile of rotting plot devices.
I’m not sure why you chose Eli as a focus character, you seem to feel he has very little to offer your audience but his humiliation and capitulation.
I’m truly expecting, as we get deeper into it, to see Premoria full of hollow eyed premies wandering up to Winter going “bind? bind?” like some sort of deprived junkies. You have found every way to make Eli’s goals and desires pointless and futile and I fully expect Premoria to fall into the same category. So far it’s full of pushy, sucky people and it will just be one more option that Eli doesn’t have.
Now if he were the sort who was happy just being the center of attention (no matter the quality of the attention) he’d be in paradise. But that ain’t the case. If here were the sort who wanted other people making decisions for him, again, heaven.
You should just call this story “Eli was wrong until he learned to just go along with what other people want.”
I’m sorry, but this story is mean-spirited at it’s core and I understand why, when asked how most premies die he answered “suicide.” (Of course, he was wrong about that too.) It seems like he’s being whittled down to two choices...this miserable, 3rd rate existence or ...that.
Now, I wouldn’t care if this were just some poorly drawn out crap. You clearly understand how to tell a story with interesting characters. But that only makes your manipulation of the whole world to be against your unfortunate protagonist even worse.
I was really interested in seeing the character take on the challenge of his circumstances. I was “with" him on that journey. But I have felt very unrewarded for my investment...in fact, I have felt betrayed as you keep forcing Eli to be wrong wrong wrong. I can’t get behind the character and his goals if you as the writer won’t let me. Until Eli starts getting some victories on his own terms this will be an exercise in futility.
I thank you for your efforts.
pixl8ed
Author's Response:
You wrote quite a lot, and I thank you for taking the time to do so!
I like to try to learn from reviews, both positive and negative.
As for plot devices and contrivances, I assume you mean binding. It's been controversial with other readers. If this were a published work, I'd take alpha/beta comments liek this and either remove the mechanic or add it at the very beginning, so its woven into the story fabric/world from page 1. This could be done before publishing (assuming I were ever going to publish something).
As for your comments on 'world against unfortunate protagonist' and 'until Eli starts getting some victories', ironically, those make me happy. I fear life being too easy for the main character. I don't like books/movies with predictable plotlines. I like real stuff (put character in situation x - go), even if it makes no sense, is boring, or fails to develop the character. For example, I enjoyed shameless -- a show where every episode, the main character(s) lose battle after battle, situation getting worse and worse -- yet they still stick together as a family and get back up again, moving forward.
I like odd books and films, such as 'let the right one in'. There is no happy ending (not saying i hate happy endings), it's wierd, often dark, psychological, unpredictable, few if any 'victories' won by either character...not even really a protagonist.
Now, I'm not claiming to be nearly as talented an author as someone like John Ajvide Lindqvist, who some say is the next Stephen King, but I'm just explaining my mindset.
I realize I'm probably failing all over the place with 'plot devices' and 'contrivances', but I'm definitely going to 'get back up' and try to improve in those areas. Perhaps it's a lost cause for Youtube (after all -- the title of the story itself is misleading -- how little is YouTube actually referenced), but to me the story is still 'alive' in my head, so I'll keep writing it just because I am interested in what happens. I'm a pantser (no outlines), so I have no idea what's going to happen and I write largely to find out for myself. Then when I write the next story, I'll work harder at removing the dues ex contrivances -- that's always been one of my major goals -- but it's good to hear when I'm unsuccessful so I can try harder next time.
Thanks for the feedback, pixl8ed!
[Report This]Date: April 23 2017 12:10 AM Title: Chapter 23
Interesting chapter about that place. It also feels realistic that that would exist.
I would be cool to see build stuff it that scale and be so much more real than any toy you have ever seen.
He is lucky to have Winter too. A very kind sister. I could never get mad at her because her actions are never meant to harm.
Again the details of it all, make this world feels real.
Author's Response:
Hopefully we'll get to see some buildings in the next chapter, or at least more of the city.
Thanks for your detailed and frequent reviews!